From there I started seeing more videos and posts speaking on Irish slavery. Perhaps I missed something in the text. and; Apparently its perfectly OK to disparage the Irish but dont make any bigoted remarks that could be interpreted as racist. Were they Anglo-Irish landlords? They can reveal locations or even a familys trade, such as a fisherman, for example. The Vikings were often referred to as the "dark invaders" or "black foreigners." One of the most famous McLoughlins is author and television presenter Coleen Rooney (neMcLoughlin). Did they feel they had a moral obligation to not support slavery? It started with a video of the Black Irish of Montserrat. It is also possible that within the various Irish cultures that became established in America that there was a pecking order, a class system that saw some of their countrymen labeled as "black.". Their original homeland was Monaghan, where their surname is still the most common. Learn more. In the sixteen hundreds EVERYONE came as indentured servants including Africans. The terminology is important, which has been duly noted and exaggerated on both ends of the discussion. According to reports from the Central Statistics Office, Murphy is the most popular last name in Ireland. I thought it was funny when he came out with this B.S. We respect your privacy and take protecting it seriously, How to plan a trip to Ireland (in 9 steps), Irish boy names that nobody can pronounce. McDonald, McFadden, and not take the last names of the slave owners, of Smith, Washington, Jefferson, like the black slaves did. The majority of the early slaves to the New World were actually white. Whole towns disappeared into the MIddle East and North Africa as a result. That is the most ridiculous thing Ive ever heard. Yes, why were the Less valued Irish allowed to keep their last names, But Blacks were completely stripped of everything, even their identity. Irish slavery is *not* a myth, nor is it a lie. I am a history teacher and Id like to provide my students with good primary and secondary sources. No, they liked they Irish accents so much that they took on the names out of respect. More than a sense of pride, our names give us the ability to trace our Irish roots through the generations. There really is no comparison! But it seems that your fellow Irish forgot both about the atrocities done to them and working side by side with African slaves. Indeed this criminalisation of the poor continues into the 21st century. Slavery in any format is wrong. Maybe blacks were named because they didnt speak english! [5] It is the masculine version of the name Ciara . The term " black Irish " refers to persons of Irish descent who are supposed to be descendants of the Spanish Armada, which sailed around the middle of the 15th century, and had dark hair and or eyes. However, in most cases from the 17th and 18th centuries, Irish slaves were nothing more than human cattle. On December 21, 1988 Jesse Jackson and a group of other black "leaders" officialy declared their support for the term 'African American'. One of the most famous Johnstons is American actress Kristen Johnston. When Blacks succeeded in creating wealth and communities that allowed Blacks to have good lives, they were systematically destroyed by angry envious bigoted white people of every background including Irish. Do this; check the census records and slave owner property records. For those of you keen to dig a little deeper into your roots, we suggest you check out ancestry.com! The Vikings bestowed upon themselves the title of the dark invaders or black foreigners. Though slavery did and still occurs worldwide, chattel slavery was an American created tradition whereby the condition of the mother indicated whether or not a child was born free or enslaved. A blog to follow. in order to be enslaved it didnt matter whether you were Irish, English, Welsh, Scots, Black, White. An African would know better. Read it again. (Thanks to Mike McCormick of the. Please note that the Irish Slave myth is frequently spread online by white supremacist in an attempt to diminish the effect of chattel slavery on black Americans in this country. January 1861, seven Southern slave states individually declared their secession from the United States and formed the Confederate. 8. are streets are a lot safer for kids to grow up thats a fact gangs of kids running about with guns you wont get that hear unless its the paramilatarys, I agree with people that dont want to be called African american, who were never born in Africa, I refuse to be called black because my skin is brown, I believe the calling of our race black is to degrade us because there is belief that whomever picked the name of the brown indigenous people from Africa named the race black because it was the most negative color, many of the Irish expelled to the New World were Black Irish. Most blacks who lived on plantations did not have last names. As far as Slavery in jail(BS) They can do their time sitting in their cells doing nothing or they can work to earn money for the commissary or to help pay money they owe to the people or places on which they committed their crimes. Its usually done to earn money for the commissary or to pay back a debt to the person they committed the crime on. Only problem how did the irish slaves keep their names. Famous OConnors include singer Sinad OConnor, novelist Flannery OConnor, and retired United States Associate Justice of the Supreme Court Sandra Day OConnor. I would love to know more, this has opened a window in my life. Nowhere in the article did the author claim that the treatments to the Irish were worse. This is nothing new, look throughout recorded human history at every time one group has oppressed several other groups rather than unite as brothers-in-arms and the oppressed groups turn against each other in the hopes of receiving their masters favour. Bullshidt!!!! Another was the prevailing feeling among the Southern States that they were not being representing and that their votes didnt count. There are many variants of the name such as. African Americans where emancipated because they needed it. People who were no longer allowed to speak their own language, practice their own religion, marry who they want to marry, raped, murdered, separated and had absolutely no control over their lives for over 250 years? Press Esc to cancel. In 1656, Cromwell ordered that 2000 Irish children be taken to Jamaica and sold as slaves to English settlers. I will admit, some of this is said by a very very very small percentage of the real irish population worldwide, they see it as being weak !!!! Shame on you. Sure there is a difference, but servant is a perhaps a misnomer. There is a book called White Cargo. Smith 6. Or the violence committed by Irish American youth against POC in places like Boston and New York. The Scots Irish, also known as Scotch Irish (especially in USA) or Ulster Scots (especially in Northern Ireland), are an ethnic group found in the province of Ulster in the north of Ireland Genealogy. People dont make it to age 40 there. While these forced deportees would have included political prisoners and serious felons, it is believed that the majority came from the poor and vulnerable. In terms of our subject matter, the first major invasion would have been the Norman invasions from European countries in Ireland in 1170 and 1172. So ledgers are a great place to start, but the the ending point. Count DanielOMahonywas a general in the Irish Brigade and is one of the most famous people with the surname OMahoney. 5,377 families had this name and they were mainly based in County Cork, Kerry, and neighbouring counties. Yes, the Irish were treated horribly by the English, but they were not sold as slaves, per se, to the West Indies. If this is the case, contrary to what may often be thought (that the term refers to an Irish person with dark skin, hair, and complexion), the label is actually a reference to said invaders intentions, all those centuries ago. good reply. After Cromwell there was such a situation, that later was deemed less desirable in a cost/benefit calculation, because of Irish poverty they could get the same benefit by using indentured servitude.*footnote. And I would love to see references that prove that White Irish people were less expensive to purchase than African slaves. If a planter whipped or branded or beat an Irish slave to death, it was never a crime. Sullivan is the 92nd most popular surname in the United States and the third most common surname in Ireland . I think you should be careful in your condemnation of what you apparently arent aware of, Gaelic Catholic culture of Ireland was subjected to English Protestant Supremacy, and Penal Laws imposed by the English Parliamentarian Cromwell in his brutal conquest of Ireland saw to it that the Gaelic Catholic culture be prohibited. Cole Continued. Since the black slavery prevailed, likely it was worse. It is commonly found in County Tipperary and neighbouring counties. I have a hard time following the discussion here, but I have made many replies. No need to compare the two as slavery in any form or fashion is wrongno matter to what extent it was practiced. I have about 3 lines of my family in which this happened. https://www.opendemocracy.net/beyondslavery/liam-hogan/%E2%80%98irish-slaves%E2%80%99-convenient-myth. Although, the much to the contrary; if youve ever studied world history, youd realize that slavery has happened in just about every culture at one time or another and has been happening at every point in time in mankinds history including the present. Even today the continent is littered with tribal dictators and warlords and they oppress the people below them and still treat them as slaves. Unless you know more about your name I would assume it association with immigrant Scottish planters and settlers of Northern Ireland, but it could have been adopted by some of the natives. Doran Irish. Its now being used to paint the picture of white persecution and victimization and to deny historic institution racism in the US. Chattel is another form, but we dont call it chattel servitude, on the other hand slavery and servitude has been used interchangeably with indentured, mostly semantics in regards to an individual vs a people. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDVhUQXElTE. There were black slave owners as well, so to say that you doubt that they were slaves because such and such was an Irish slave owner is crazy. You dont have to accept their politics any more than you should be insisting on your own when interrupting the past. Carran A spelling variant of Curran, this Irish surname is an anglicized form of ' Corraidhin' referring to 'descendant of Corraidhin.' The word Corraidhin is derived from 'Corradh' which means 'little spear.' This is the most recent history and this is, what Id argue, is the reason why Blacks are accredited as being the slave race. I am not judging anyone here I am just making observations and that is what I have observed. So stupid its almost funny, but instead its depressing cuz its so ignorant and shows how gullible these liberal assholes are, just looking for someone elses cause to bear cuz they gotta help those poor, downtrodden folks recover their true histories, and file a lawsuit against the government so they can assimilate into modern society and buy organic and get a job in IT or in the arts or a good non-profit..fuck you. Thanks for this fascinating post. In other words, the South stood more to lose. But this example is of the opposite. The Cromwell era, which saw a few thousand Irish servants brought to Barbados, is where most of this false narrative is focusing on. The predominant slave owners were not Irish. Thanks for this powerful information. 2. The West, wrongly puts Africa, which is a continent not a country, as all the same people. Another part of history that is not covered in our history books. Sons James Catholic bishop of Pirtland Maine Patrick Jesuit priest who made Georgetown University. If we were going Per capita I would 100 percent say yes!!! Racism based on the color of your skin post dates the bulk of African slavery, and predates the arrival of most Americans ancestors. At least they were able to join the white establishment due to their color. Why would you even mention those in the same breath? Actress Kristen Bell is one of the most famous people with this name. Famous examples include actresses Demi Moore, Julianne Moore, andMandyMoore. The Irish were endentured servants. Kelly 3. Am Afro-American. the Germans claimed that no Jews were being murdered but they were lying too. Murray 19. Smith is one of the most common surnames across the world with well known Smiths such as actor Will Smith, actress Maggie Smith, and singer-songwriter Patti Smith all having the popular Irish surname. As far as the name changes it was probably due to pronunciations not so much of stripping the names, doubt the traders/owners cared either way, whatever would be easiest. Like, Im confused. Judging history, or whole groups of people through myopic glasses is not only intellectually dishonest but harmful in the modern practice of superimposing everything over the wrongs of the past. Hell is running over, with the evilness of mans inhumanity to their fellow men, women and children. slavery is not in the past. It is possible that the arrival of large numbers of Irish after the famine into America, Canada, Australia, and beyond resulted in their being labeled as "black" in that they escaped from this new kind of black death. The vast majority of labourers who agreed to this system did so voluntarily, but there were many who were forcibly transplanted from the British Isles to the colonies and sold into indentured service against their will. If it wasnt profitable, they wouldnt have done it. Theres no question that the Irish werent treated very well. Indentured is a form of slavery. He said a freed man works for no man. I was crying, but I wouldnt changed the colors of how I seen Jesus. As most of the slave owners were of Anglo-Celtic descent, these are the names that the African-Americans were saddled with. This forced labour was in essence an extension of the English Poor Laws, e.g. This answers a hell of a lot for me. Northern Irish football player Alex Higgins is one of the most well-known people with this surname. When enslaving whites/Christians became illegal in the U.S., the newly released white indentured servants became crackers/overseers and many became slave owners themselves. Just like her arguing the distinction between different slave treatments. get your facts right, [] Why blacks have Irish last names. Best we can all do is read. As things evolved though the change from indentured to enslaved came in a big way because of the darker skin tone making it easier to identify runaways and the popularity of black Africans entering a lifetime period of slavery is why indentured servitude was replaced with full on actual slavery. My entire family ancestry is from the island of Montserrat. This was brought about by many different factors and not just slavery as most people seem to think. 3) even if they were 100,000 Irish slaves (which there were not) how dare you attempt to chastise us for talking about the African holocaust? The Anglo-Saxon offspring he openly acknowledged. Such a great read! Famous Healys include musicians Matt Healey and Una Healey. Liam Hogan does a pretty good job of refuting this pseudohistory. It would be interesting to know why they are attracted to each other. Physical race traits such as skin color were used much later as a justification for slavery, not a motivation to start it. By calling yourself black you are giving your power away. Dingle is English but common in Ireland. Connolly 24. Records state that, after the 1798 Irish Rebellion, thousands of Irish slaves were sold to both America and Australia. This is a good example of the saying this is a load of _______ (insert rude word or expletive). Actress Lauren Graham is one of the most famous Grahams. It was not until Darwin that the belief that physical traits identified race. a male black slave cannot transfer an Irish last name.so it would have had to be a male Irish slave mating with an African slave women who would not have been the owner of the slave child , it would have to have the name of the white owner, so riddle us that?? Another theory of the origin of the term "Black Irish" is that these people were descendants of Spanish traders who settled in Ireland and even descendants of the few Spanish sailors who were washed up on the west coast of Ireland after the disaster of the Spanish Armada of 1588. Today some 6.7 million people live on the Emerald Isle. I want to thank everyone for reading my postit was a topic Ive been pondering for a while..I was tired of being asked the same questions over and over..your last name is Irish but you are black. Think about this; slavery is a serious business and slaves are property like cattle, horses, sheep etc. The Normans another group to invade Ireland, Brand new luxury hotel opening in Cashel this spring, The most exciting new projects coming to Belfast in 2022, The 10 BIGGEST St. Patricks Day PARADES in the USA, Hell never get older Father Ted star Dermot Morgans son on 25, Three Belfast men set sights on rowing world records, New true-crime documentary exposes the many lies and lives of GPO girl, Country Clare hotel voted one of the most romantic in the world, Catch yourself on: Irish SLANG PHRASE meaning explained. There were school busses, city busses in which I stood my ground my grandmother let me be she was not of color ,but she wasnt white nor racist.. It was written in the year 916 A.D. that the lord of Aidhne, Tigherneach Ua Cleirigh, died in County Galway. The slave owners of my ancestors were Dingles. The english continued to try to extinguish the Irish through starvation, oppression etc in Ireland. Captured irish were SLAVES, and nothing but slaves, no matter how these hysterical (fake) leftists are trying to prove otherwise. They were opposed by the native Irish (as they still are today), and as compensation given land and status in the New World. Maybe its time we stop fighting with each other and start learning from each other? Over centuries, as groups arrived and fled, ancient Ireland began to take shape. Are the Australian Aborigines to be categorized in this same way although, willingly or unwillingly, they didnt participate in the same slave trade and share no (at least within the past several thousand years) common history with the African Blacks? This is what I could find so far: No statistical reference to Ireland at least on Ancestry: A second article. Could the Irish in specific have something to do with what the most High is doing in (phisical) (black) Israel? These include Gaelic Irish, Cambro-Norman, and Anglo-Irish last names. Youll probably end up as one next lifetime. He gained his freedom in 7 years and bought land. Who were the black Irish? This is incorrect information. Thats a very open minded attitude. Dirst the Spaniards/Portuguese outlawed enslaving Christians long before British had slaves in the Americas. The names and places may change however the game and the crimes remain the same. English treated Irish deplorably. Originating from France, the Normans were a primitive, powerful group of fighters who were first welcomed to the Emerald Isle, led by Dermot McMurrough, a king of Leinster (one of the islands four provinces) in Ireland. The field needs to be tilted in the other direction for a few decades before we can be on level ground. Burke So they forgot where there came from, slavery and became slavers or helped them. As poor people in the same boat, yes there were relationships, marriages etc. Not if the mother were a prostitute and father disappeared. No one forced them to commit a crime. In June 2020, Darker Still Spirits . So with that in mind I guess history allready was rewritten in favour of the British They became very wealthy and powerful at the expense of their foes and rivals. British politician, writer, and broadcaster Bryan Magee is one of the most well-known Magees. 6. He had several indentured servants. Fourth, historically the highest amount of interethnic marriage between two ethnic groups post civil war are Irish and African. It is unlikely that the exact origin of the term will ever be known and it is also likely that it has had a number of different iterations, depending on the historical context. The most Blake families were found in USA in 1880. They can still go back to Ireland and see where they came from and even meet distant cousins. The term "black Irish" refers to persons of Irish descent who are . She was so angry, thats not what Jesus looks like, so I said how do you know,? In the middle east a milder form of it still exists. Families were ripped apart as the British did not allow Irish dads to take their wives and children with them across the Atlantic. Irish slaves. I have a very Irish last nameMurphy, enjoy and thanks for sharing Konnetta! Who where these owners? Most planters were multimilionaires by todays standards so purchasing thousands of enslaved blacks every 5 years to replaced the thousands who died from starvation, dehydration, disease, exposure, infection, brutality, suicide and mutilation was a minor expense. They were also raped by their white captors and dealers while in the holding cells that lined the coasts of Africa. Those issues are the racism, the bigotry and the discrimination we face daily. Famous Sheehans include bass guitarist Billy Sheehan and American writer Susan Sheehan. Walsh 5. And you never were shipped anywhere. I always thought that the Jamaican dialect sounded like a version of an Irish dialect. Irelands most popular baby names of 2022 - by county! In its conception, Ireland was made up of kin groups or clans. If youre essentially dying a slow death, it might as well be slavery. My grandmother was an indentured servant who came over here from Ireland to work with an English family later on my grandfather saw her or met her and decided to purchase her freedom from that English family so she so she was actually a slave / indentured servant herself, I was under the impressionthat the Irish came to America as indenture slaves. A quick review of Irish history reveals that the island was. I am black American and have African indentured servants in my lineage. My only counter comment would be that slavery still exists in 21st century US through its prison industrial complex .. The turnover would not be that high if whites treated enslaved blacks with even a modicum of kindness. Thanks 4 Sharing I Got My DNA I have 21% Irish blood and My last Name is Sharp its good 2 know but its still so much hatred in the world.!! The Huns and Mongols did it. I dont expect people to spot the difference between the Scottish Planters who shared Gaelic names and were approved to move into Ireland and take the land to quell the natives. & why St.Patricks day is arguably one of the most celebrated holidays on the island. What I will do is to remind you that GOD gave us all an ability that sets us apart from lower animals and that is the ability to reason, use common sense instead of instinct, as lower animals do. The argument is as follows: the Irish had an advantage because of their skin color. In this way of debate it subdivides the issue of slavery in degrees of worse and worse-er. We have to stop making up excuses for white slaveholders and the damage they inflicted onto their black captives, including the removal of our names and stripping us of even the knowledge of knowing where we are (specifically) from as the Irish, English, Spaniards, Scottish, etc. They owned the land in Ireland too where Catholic Irish worked on their lands. The pirates let the Irish Gaels go free. I have always found that a fascinating sociological subject, whether its worthy of study is doubtful. Were revealing where the term comes from and who exactly the term is referring to. Actress Chelsea Kane is one of the most well-known Kanes. Wealthy irish were Protestants who were placed there by England to control and rule the Native population. William Downing and Philip Welch. I enjoy being educated, there is so much to learn that I wish our young people were taught, so they would love instead of hating each other. Thanks for sharing. The African slave adapted readily to the tropical conditions of the West Indies,but they had to be purchased, whereas the Irish were hunted down like rabbits in their homeland, and were free of charge for the taking. In fact, many Norman invasion families grew to amend their family names (surnames) to reflect this. I was slapped on the hands with a ruler as she demanded, screaming , and hitting me,!! However, most Blacks in the USA dont have to deal with slavery. O'Reilly 12. ack sure the English were only RAPEING women and children for 800 years talking are homes are lands hanging us for are religion we were slaves to the English for years ack and sure only 1 million people died of starvation watching there kids dieing one by one resorting to poor houses were you worked for food. People hardly wanna learn African names now and wanna say Ill call you _______ but anyway I have an Irish last name because of my moms dad but I also have a French last name that originated in Germany. Famous Clarkes include actresses Emilia Clarke and Melinda Mindy Clarke. Thank you. Sure the law condemned them, but do they have any less right to their heritage than a White person? The migrants became 'Gaelicized' and formed septs (a kind of clan) along Gaelic lines. Unless you dont feel theres any systematic oppression, which if you take some time studying the oppression of Catholics in Ireland youd understand. Variant of Doherty. How hypocritical but typical of the current climate in this country. You all talking rubbish, Under 800 years of English rule millions of irish died at the hand of the British. The Irish were treated HORRIBLY, often just as horribly as Africansbut not always.
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