Of course. Prices can change quickly! Its really built in the dark days of when stuff is really difficult and I think Zumpers culture now is we have a lot of users still remembers and its a testament to those dark days and we never take anything for granted. And investors love that story because its easy to believe that you can continue to do that. Anthemos Georgiades, Author at The Zumper Blog Like many of our most successful entrepreneurs. Obviously they knew and I think for us it was like telling Axle and the rest of our investors that there are going to be months where we massively beat plans and there will be months where were behind plans. Had worked in politics. Anthemos Georgiades email address & phone number - RocketReach I kind of looked through in Crunchbase which connections I have into which fund. So in terms of timeline, you were mentioning that the C round, you guys closed this 46 million a couple of months ago. Keeping good lines of communication open can solve many landlord/tenant problems. E1031 Zumper CEO Anthemos Georgiades on monetizing - YouTube Theres never like an exact number you need like when Uber raised money or you know Zillow raised money, theres never like a number they have to be at. Zumper which is a little bigger in terms of audience now caters more to urban professionals moving within cities. Alejandro: Got it. It looks better for investors and it makes your life easier. . In the first two or three years you will kill your marketplace if you create any barriers to entry from either side. You know its interesting that you mentioned the chicken and the egg. And then when I moved out to America, Russel was software engineer at Google and I had no technical background so I basically hit up my network for anyone with a technical background living in the US who might be interested in joining and Russel and I really hit it off and he was the perfect cofounder. Of course and I agree with you there, Anthemos. Anthemos Georgiades, Zumper, European Founder, International Founders, Marketplace The process of renting apartments hasn't changed since Craigslist was introduced. And investors love that story because its easy to believe that you can continue to do that. So I guess lets say we had the opportunity to put you in front of your younger self, Anthemos, in 2012 before you were to close that seed round, what would be that piece of advice that you would give to your younger self with everything that youve learned having this journey ahead of you? Anthemos Georgiades: Yeah. And so I didnt really think about it too often because this is kind of 15 years ago but then I moved to another six or seven times into an apartment rentals in London, in Boston, in New York and the process is so bad every time, not just in searching but also in actually like getting the apartment. They wanted to close apartments like they book a hotel and so took the status of like 35 different apartments we leased using the technology in San Francisco to VCs and said, Hey, were really going to rebuild all of this but heres some data that shows this really can work at scale, and thats how we raised the first million dollars from some of the names that you mentioned. And we were talking about the $46 million round which was the C round, C as in cat and basically what you were talking about I mean what Ive seen is that you guys have shifted a little bit the strategy. Anthemos Georgiades - Co-Founder & CEO - Zumper | LinkedIn We envisioned a world in which a renter can find apartments, book in [tour 10:18], turn up the [10:21] and if they want to take the apartment pre-qualify, leave a deposit and book the apartment. So you still have to land it and once youre on the door it doesnt matter where you come from you have to have something good. Really good strategy to differentiate the demographics and were super happy with how it went down. Your job as the CEO and the founder is to convince your investors of the reason to do this. Unluckily weve made some phenomenal early hires so the company that have all scaled to leadership roles, thats fantastic for retention because those people know that we could have hired from outside but we bet on them and it worked and so Zumper is a place to build theyre career not somewhere else. We saw it would take three to six months to integrate Pat Mapper and their backend that engineering project we worked really hard and quickly just over a year to integrate so we underestimated like how much work was required to integrate them by 3x. So I guess in your guys case, how do you deal with the egos and then more importantly how did you define the responsibilities early on so that you kind of have that healthy culture going on? Your job is to raise capital and your job is to kind of hire and retain the best talents. Your second month you spend getting term sheets and documents signed. So I learned a lot from a few companies that I loved, a few companies that I thought are doing crazy things I learned so much. So when you go in to a fundraising in terms of preparation the most important thing is that your last six months are great and your most important metrics are all growing really nicely so kind of five, six months in a row that is a fantastic story to tell to an investor. I mean to a point network gets you an intro but a lot of intros are 10 minute meetings where the VC immediately decides its not for them which is totally fair. For me, its Zumper, an apartment rental platform. Rocketreach finds email, phone & social media for 450M+ professionals. And so when you think about AB testing frameworks, you think about how many started [03:43] that is a [03:44] grad school taught me. Got it. And [14:42] in Silicon Valley is married to [graphics 14:43] mostly in terms of great companies just break out and succeed [agnostic 14:48] as to where people went to college or if they came from a wealthy or poor family. What are some tips for successfully navigating the rental market from a renter's perspective? For us, I think they fully understand the entrepreneurial journey and were really excited to have them on board. So Anthemos, theres always a first time and you know I guess this is the first time in the history of the DealMakers Show that Im able to interview someone that has been involve on the M&A but more on the buy side. How many listings do we have on the site? It was not something Ive really ever thought about before. I say like in the first pitch to the day the money wires, theres always been around like a minimum of three months. If you want me to help you with your fundraising, just book a call. And I mean its quite a few cofounders. So thats how Zumper got started. Anthemos Georgiades: Yeah. And for you I guess personally and professionally because I think they both come together, so how has your leadership and management skills changed over the time from leading the company of lets say four to ten folks initially to a company of over a hundred employees? So one is weve always promoted within so whenever we needed a role, we always prefer to promote someone instead of hiring from outside. Alejandro: Got it. So today, we have another founder and another one that is quite successful in their own paths. Its really built in the dark days of when stuff is really difficult and I think Zumpers culture now is we have a lot of users still remembers and its a testament to those dark days and we never take anything for granted. The company was incorporated in California, Texas, and Florida ten years ago. We want investors who look at $100 million in revenue as table stakes but they wont agree to a billion. So we solved it to the first two years purely by getting landlords on board through various kind of product strategy and so our growth cuts for the first two years that we raised the [27:41] were purely about landlords and listing. It is ultimately the culture. How many landlords did we have on the site? If you want me to do your fundraising for you, click here. How do you take a company with those tractions, 10 million in revenue. Yeah, I mean BCG I think you get access to the 23 year olds CEOs who had been working for 40 years and kind of crazy in consulting you take the shortcut in your careers to being in the board room. rex harrison audrey hepburn relationship. Absolutely. And your cap table I mean as I was reviewing I just felt as I was looking at the Oscars of Silicon Valley, the red carpet. I kind of looked through in Crunchbase which connections I have into which fund. So cofounders are difficult especially if youre not technical as really hard to find a good technical cofounder but the great thing is once you do and it takes a long time, they are able to attract the next generation of talent in to the company and thats how you kind of build your engineering team out. The second one is have a vision and a mission that people agree with and we all wanted to [37:13] this vision make renting an apartment as easy as booking a hotel. Now we have supply so the six months curve at the series B was all about users and millions of monthly users and then at the series C it was much more revenue curve. I grew up in London. I have no experience doing that. Every fantastic company has had hundreds of nos on the way to kind of huge outcomes and you just cant take it personally. So we bought them. So the majority of that is still in the bank but yeah, we raised money in capital [12:00]. In the early days we love the exposure to Silicon Valley investors. Alejandro: Of course. And as you know as and your listeners know, youre going to get a lot of nos on the way. Two sided marketplaces are so difficult. Got it. At college in the UK, Ive had like multiple [00:58] renting apartments. Every company is completely different and theres no gold standard. And it is the culture that keeps people here, not the compensation or anything else. Alejandro: Got it. So I wouldnt be too picky early. At scale you get to do that and have those teams. Member profile: Zumper's founders - Anthemos Georgiades and Russell We didnt go that route because I have the network but if I didnt have the network and some people have the network and still do it, they are really good cheap in to getting scaled quickly. At college in the UK, Ive had like multiple [00:58] renting apartments. Got it. Alejandro: Really, really nice to have you here and excited for the chat that we have ahead here. 2023: The Road Ahead for Multifamily Operators Its a good question. So I think three months is an efficient round. So watching board members from the early investments are [19:38] who now runs Good Water but was originally Kleiner and then Eric [19:42] from Kleiner and theyre both experts at product market set. Prior to his work at Zumper, Georgiades worked at the Boston . So I think three months is an efficient round. Were going to charge you per lead or for the smaller landlords we charge them if theyre [11:15] for the transaction. How many landlords did we have on the site? Budget in my opinion perhaps should be allocated to something else. Not really actually. Its not about the ski trips and any of that you know. You can set the expectations and then see what happens and if its not a good fit upfront, you can go with the different option on the table. Yeah. His passion for relieving the stress for others in . I mean at the end of the day, building and scaling companies especially when youre at the early stages is all about survival and its all about learning to be with each other behind the trenches and really going to war and having each others backs. So lets talk about Zumper here. With a diverse background that includes consulting for Boston Consulting Group and serving as Economic Advisor and speechwriter in the 2010 British Election, Anthemos founded Zumper in 2012 after his own terrible rental experience. It just really helps to divide and conquer like that while I was meeting new investors again. Its so hard to get marketplaces liquidity so correct, the beautiful thing as you know is when you have it, it took us three years to get to that, it just runs and you just grow naturally when you have both sides but its so hard to get to it. The most important thing is to surround yourself with an amazing support group because it is so much harder to build a company than I thought it was and the emotional resilience you need to get through the dark days and come back to the bright days even now is what [38:54] just get harder like yeah, we have more revenue now but with that there are people [38:58] and like huge revenue targets we have to attain and so the most important thing is surround yourself with a network of family, friends, mentors, peers, your team, your investors, whoever is an emotional crutch for you where you can take from them but also maybe get back to them as well when theyre having a tough time, thats the single most important thing is look after your mental health because it is lonely and it is stressful and if youre able to kind of be resilient you have a great outcome but it is really hard on some days to push through, so build that around just [39:35] and you can be happy while running your company. Shalin Amin Chief Experience Officer. Yeah. They were super lean team of under five people and its been a great deal for Zumper like we have one backend, one sales team and then two consumer platforms. They are the two ways that Zumper currently monetizes them and there are two folks that [11:35]. Back to Meet the San Francisco Business Times' 40 under 40 Class of 2018. [06:54] the early days and it worked where there was just all hands to the pump. Anthemos Georgiades is the co-founder and CEO of Zumper, the largest startup in the rental industry, used by more than 26 million renters last year alone. How to tell a story worth $140 million dollars - Funded Podcast And it is the culture that keeps people here, not the compensation or anything else. 10 Things All Landlords Should Remember To Ensure Good Tenant - Forbes Got it and before we actually dive in to the journey here, so consulting and. Alejandro: So I guess in just to like follow up on that, what in your mind and obviously in what youve seen creates really that magical relationship between cofounders? At series B, you got to show product market set across the board with the revenue and then at series C, you got to show real traction and real revenue and a proper P&L. Anthemos lives in San Francisco, where Zumper is HQd, with his wife. He was with HBS 10 years ago. Anthemos Georgiades: Yeah. Got it. We envisioned a world in which a renter can find apartments, book in [tour 10:18], turn up the [10:21] and if they want to take the apartment pre-qualify, leave a deposit and book the apartment. It was at the time Pat Mapper example almost the same size on consumer but now Zumper is much bigger but we called it like a cheat and your job as the founder is to identify like vertical cheats where overnight you become bigger than your competitors. And to be fair, some of these 20 did indeed come back later to invest but in Boston and I pitched all of the east coast investors first because I was on the east coast and they were straight nos. They may not understand marketplace as well as you but they may be able to bring a brilliant way of thinking about how to bring the supply on [30:20]. Not really actually. Anthemos Georgiades: Oh wow, good question. We also actually had a really wonderful fourth cofounder whos no longer with us. He's raised $39.2 million in venture capital, grown the team to 70+, and completed the acquisition of apartment search platform PadMapper. Anthemos Georgiades: Yeah. I knew the CEO for a while. Alejandro: Got it and before we actually dive in to the journey here, so consulting and business school, this is a few things that I typically hear so from some of our other guests. Zumper CEO and co-founder May 2012 Board and Advisor Roles Number of Current Board & Advisor Roles 1 Anthemos Georgiades is the Board Member at Zumper. I think just up front boundaries before you close the round is super important. Got it. anthemos georgiades net worth Yes, weve raised $90 million in capital including a series C that we just closed three months ago. And the biggest change in the series C I just raised versus in the early days is having a CFO. August 4, 2020. 1. Anthemos Georgiades: Yeah. So for Zumper our vision as I mentioned was to make renting an apartment as easy as booking a hotel and so instead of going in with just an idea, I built like a really crappy version of the end game that I wanted to build. Likewise. At Zumper, based in San Francisco, he leads the company in its mission to make renting an apartment as easy as booking a hotel. For us, I think they fully understand the entrepreneurial journey and were really excited to have them on board. Anthemos Georgiades: Yeah. All photos courtesy of Forbes Councils members. Its hard. Sujal Patel On Selling His First Business For $2.6 Billion And Now Raising $108 Million From Jeff Bezos And Others To Improve Medical Diagnostics, Cap Table: Everything Entrepreneurs Need To Know, He Cofounded A Business Of 4,000 Employees That Just Sold For $2.6 Billion To Delivery Hero, Sacha Michaud On Cofounding A Business Of 4,000 Employees That Just Sold For $2.6 Billion To Delivery Hero, His Previous Business Is Worth $1 Billion And Now Raised $54 Million To Create A Cloud-Native Database Service, Nikita Shamgunov On Building A $1 Billion Business And Now Raising $54 Million To Create A Cloud-Native Database Service, How to leverage your network for introductions, The importance of your metrics leading up to the, Expectations from investors during the different. Could you meet him? And so whereas that doesnt guarantee any success we obviously have to have really good numbers and a really good story to tell them. Alejandro: Got it. It was not something Ive really ever thought about before. And so just be prepared that however smart, however many smart people have looked the deal and thought about whether it will work, it always take a little bit more time than you think it will to integrate because theres always some gremlin kind of hiding in the works that youre going to find. Youre supposed to try six things that dont work. And the biggest change in the series C I just raised versus in the early days is having a CFO. The one unifying theme in every fundraising Ive run is momentum. All of it is going to be important and it will come out at the right stage. Now my cofounders were phenomenal in bringing them to meetings. So the series B, weve done story now look at how quickly the renters are growing on the platform. Got it. So I guess lets say we had the opportunity to put you in front of your younger self, Anthemos, in 2012 before you were to close that seed round, what would be that piece of advice that you would give to your younger self with everything that youve learned having this journey ahead of you? A lot of business schools was how to make decisions with imperfect information. There was no book [01:41]. Got it. Got it. Anthemos Georgiades: Yeah. So you kind of just have to [25:29] but just to be clear yeah, we had far more nos than yeses at the seed round. Dave Costantino Staff Engineer - Backend. So Anthemos, whats the business model here? So I guess for those listeners that are looking at acquiring other companies to perhaps grow a little bit faster, what kind of advice would you give to them? One is I wouldnt be too pressured about it too early. A lot of that is in the bank. Whats your story and most importantly, how did you get started with the entrepreneurial bug? It was just purely hustling my network for six months to find people who are really great cultural fit but also have very different skill sets to the one I have. It was like $46 million. Yeah. And then now your job at five, six years in with a team of a hundred with higher and amazing executive team who are all better at doing their jobs than you would ever be and so your job is almost as a CEO is to like hire yourself out of a job where you hire people, where you look at them and you think, Wow, I cant believe you report to me. I guess the question that I would ask you and perhaps some advice for some of those that are listening, that are building a business that is more around the network effects, the marketplaces, should they walk the other way if the investor is asking too much about revenue early on on the financing cycles? So what is the best way, Anthemos, for people that are listening to reach out and say hi? And so I didnt really think about it too often because this is kind of 15 years ago but then I moved to another six or seven times into an apartment rentals in London, in Boston, in New York and the process is so bad every time, not just in searching but also in actually like getting the apartment. Anthemos Georgiades is the co-founder and CEO of Zumper. Culture is everything and so investing in people making sure I as the CEO spend a lot of time as much as possible with people who dont report to me is absolutely critical and that is ultimately like the fabric on how most companies are run. Got it. FUNDED EP01: How to tell a story worth $140 million dollars (Zumper) 00:00 51:07 Episode Summary Anthemos Georgiades, founder of Zumper, perfected his pitch the way most founders do: through trial and error. Oh yeah, on the seed round back in 2012, we had probably five investors come in to the seed round so we kind of had five yeses who put in small checks. When you look your cofounders, your team in the eye and you know theyre ready to go and theyre resilient and they come back in to build and try the next thing and youve kind of worked out together this is part of the game. So cofounders are difficult especially if youre not technical as really hard to find a good technical cofounder but the great thing is once you do and it takes a long time, they are able to attract the next generation of talent in to the company and thats how you kind of build your engineering team out. Vishal Makhijani President & COO. We also actually had a really wonderful fourth cofounder whos no longer with us. Got it. It has to be me and thats how I started the company six years ago after business school. At series B, you got to show product market set across the board with the revenue and then at series C, you got to show real traction and real revenue and a proper P&L. But was drawn in to it just to solve a problem as I think so many entrepreneurs are. Alrightee. So I as British person moving to Silicon Valley in 2012 I have never run a startup before. So today, we have another founder and another one that is quite successful in their own paths. So Anthemos, theres always a first time and you know I guess this is the first time in the history of the DealMakers Show that Im able to interview someone that has been involve on the M&A but more on the buy side. But was drawn in to it just to solve a problem as I think so many entrepreneurs are. Got it. And were just a little earlier than obviously a public company so our gross is spikier. Anthemos Georgiades: Yeah. I learned more from you than you learned from me, and then your job as CEO is to do kind of two or three things, that is to continue to advance like the vision and the mission of the company and keep everything strategically aligned. Were growing very quickly but none of that was true obviously in the first two years. And so just be prepared that however smart, however many smart people have looked the deal and thought about whether it will work, it always take a little bit more time than you think it will to integrate because theres always some gremlin kind of hiding in the works that youre going to find. Well help you prequalify renters and actually get the renter in to a lease, signing the documents, paying the first month deposit but well charge you a percentage of the lease fairly. Saying that to your point, we see the deal was a successful and yet M&A is really hard to integrate. It looks better for investors and it makes your life easier. So Id say your first month you spend like getting first, second, third meeting. Anthemos was an undergrad at Oxford when he noticed how problematic renting an apartment . Because I speak with a ton of founders that are perhaps opening up the possibility of bringing on corporations and I think that you need to really do it right. And we built this website using an outsource development shop in Europe that just tested one assumption of the end game which was can we get users in 2011, 2012 just as mobile was coming online to apply and close apartments from their phone. In the early days you as the CEO you are the fundraiser, you are the effective CFO, youre the head of sales and you kind of have to do the whole thing. I think just up front boundaries before you close the round is super important. Your second month you spend getting term sheets and documents signed. Anthemos Georgiades: Yeah, I think its probably the DNA of your culture is I think a lot of it is built in the tough times. Pat Mapper caters to 25 and under and kind of big college populations. Alejandro: Got it. So what I wanted to ask you here is in terms of on boarding lets say this type of, because its a different beast, you know type of investors so how does the approach from evaluating an investor that is a VC, an angel or an angel group shift towards evaluating a potential strategic corporation that is looking to become part of your cap table? Tanguy Le Louarn Chief Product Officer. Anthemos Georgiades: So Zumper is the vision for the company is to make renting an apartment as easy as booking a hotel. Youll get terms sheets and yeses hopefully quicker than that but this process takes a while and as the money increases and a few rounds become more complicated, it can take more than three months as well. Taylor Glass-Moore Co-Founder. Anthemos Georgiades CEO at Zumper United States 4K followers 500+ connections Join to view profile Zumper Harvard Business School Websites Websites Company Website http://www.zumper.com Company. So the way we monetize this is we either monetize the landlord mainly and we either charge them to leads. At Zumper, based in San Francisco, he leads the company in its mission to make renting an apartment as easy as booking a hotel. Theyre both incredibly smart as are my executive team who are also like critical to fundraise where Ill go in and sell the vision often alone. I think its easy not to set those expectations and get caught in the relationship where neither side is being clear on what they expect. Because I speak with a ton of founders that are perhaps opening up the possibility of bringing on corporations and I think that you need to really do it right. Anthemos Georgiades is the CEO and co-founder at Zumper. Your job is to raise capital and your job is to kind of hire and retain the best talents. And so as you mature you look for a different kind of investor and that naturally tends to happen. Yeah. I learned more from you than you learned from me, and then your job as CEO is to do kind of two or three things, that is to continue to advance like the vision and the mission of the company and keep everything strategically aligned. And we were talking about the $46 million round which was the C round, C as in cat and basically what you were talking about I mean what Ive seen is that you guys have shifted a little bit the strategy. They were [sexy 23:47] company and really fantastic fundraisers but the rounds just take a long time, due diligence take a long time.
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